Reconnecting with Practice: The Music of Mali Obomsawin (5 Plain Questions)

This episode was produced in partnership with 5 Plain Questions and Eleven Warrior Arts. Hosted by Joe Williams, 5 Plain Questions is a podcast that proposes 5 general questions to Native American and Indigenous artists, creators, musicians, writers, movers and shakers, and culture bearers.

Mali Obomsawin stands at the forefront of contemporary Indigenous music, embodying a diverse range of genres that include jazz, roots music, and experimental sound. 

As a bassist, composer, and vocalist hailing from the Odanak First Nation, her artistic journey has led her to collaborate with esteemed musicians while forging her own path through innovative compositions that challenge the status quo. In this dialogue, we explore the nuanced influences that have shaped Mali’s musical identity, spanning her rich upbringing in rural western Maine, where folk traditions intermingle with political activism. We explore her recent endeavors, including her eponymous free jazz ensemble and the rock band Deerlady, emphasizing her commitment to authenticity and artistic evolution. Join us as we engage with Mali’s insights on the vital interplay between creative practice and personal well-being, illuminating the profound impact of Indigenous culture on her work.

Episode Resources

• Episode transcript
• Episode webpage
• Mali Obomsawin’s website & Instagram
• Mali Obomsawin on Bandcamp
• Deerlady website & Instagram
• Julia Keefe Indigenous Big Band website
• 5 Plain Questions website

Subscribe to 5 Plain Questions wherever you get your podcasts, including Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Art of the Rural is honored to support 5 Plain Questions. We are grateful to individual donors across the country, the Ford Foundation, and Good Chaos for making these conversations possible. Learn more about our work and show your support at artoftherural.org

Chapters

• 1:45 Introducing Mali Obomaiwin
• 4:19 Influences and Inspirations in Music
• 9:22 The Journey of a Music Career
• 16:00 The Creative Process: Balancing Solitude and Engagement
• 22:53 Connecting with Mali

Transcript

Episode Introduction

Matthew Fluharty: Art of the Rural is honored to support 5 Plain Questions. We are a collaborative organization that works to resource artists and culture bearers across the country. Together we build relationships, change narratives, and bridge divides. Across the last 15 years, we've collaborated with individuals and communities from a range of cultural and geographic backgrounds.

To contribute towards a more equitable and healthy future for rural and Indian country. We invite folks to check out some of our work. Our Rural-Urban Exchange strengthens intercultural networks through a locally focused creative leadership program. Our Spillway initiative supports artists and culture bearers to cultivate relationships along the Upper Mississippi River region.

And our High Visibility initiative creates podcasts, exhibitions, and publications that share nuanced and complex perspectives on contemporary life in rural and Indian country. If folks would like to learn more about our work, please visit artoftherural.org.

Joe Williams: Hello and welcome again to another episode of 5 Plain Questions, a podcast that proposes five questions to indigenous artists, creators, musicians. Writers, movers and shakers and culture bears, people in the community that are doing great things for their communities. I'm Joe Williams, your host for this conversation.

My goal is to showcase these amazing people in our indigenous communities from around the region and country. I want to introduce you to Mali Obomsawin. Mali Obomsawin is a bassist, composer, vocalist, and citizen of the Odanak First Nation.  Obomsawin's increasingly broad body of work spans jazz and roots music, indie rock and experimental sound, an international touring artist and celebrated componist.

Her current projects include her eponymous free jazz ensemble, the rock band Deerlady, and Julia Keefe Indigenous Big Band.  Obomsawin's expansive practice models 21st century indigeneity, challenging the complacency of our times with lush, bombastic, and at times haunting compositions. Mali has been blessed to study and perform with notable musicians, including Espinoza, Spalding, Raven Chacon, Taylor Ho Bynum, Dave Holland, Angelica Sanchez, and many more.

So with that said, let's jump into this conversation with Mali Obomsawin.

Interview

Joe Williams: Mali, thank you so much for joining me on 5 Plain Questions. It's really great to have you here. Thank you for having me. Would you be able to introduce yourself? Tell us a little bit about your yourself, where you're from, and what your background is?

Mali Obomsawin: Yeah. Good morning everybody. My name is Mali  Obomsawin. I am from Odanak, the Abenaki First Nation on the Alsigôntekw, River, which is known by some as the St. Francis River.

Joe Williams: And what is it creatively what is it that you do?

Mali Obomsawin: I am a bassist. I'm a singer, I'm a composer. I lead several projects including a jazz sextet and a rock band called Deerlady. I also am in part of the indigenous big band led by Julia Keefe. Score films. Yeah, I do a lot of stuff, but I'm a bassist first and foremost.

Joe Williams: That is so cool. That is so cool. And the jazz quartet, I've been listening to some of your tracks recently and just getting lost in them. Thank you for the listener. You have to check it out, but we'll get into that later on. So in, throughout our life we're influenced by different sorts of people and different environments.

What are your biggest influences?

Mali Obomsawin: Wow. A few. A few.  I think my biggest influence was the environment I grew up in musically in my hometown in rural western Maine. It's a part of the world that people don't know a lot about. It's a really interesting and complicated history of colonization and settlement and cultural sort of cross fading because it's a sort of in the borderlands between some regions that were fought over for a really long time by several different entities. So growing up there, I was surrounded by all these folk music traditions that kind of just like, nestle in the foothills of the mountains there.

Cape Breton tunes coming down from Nova Scotia, Cape Breton area, Quebecois fiddle playing, Acadian tunes, old time tunes that come up, the Appalachian Trail, which ends in Maine and ragtime is still played there. There's sea shanties that people sing in the area around Farmington, Maine, where I grew up.

So that was like a very huge influence on me. And then of course, being in community and hearing our folk songs are the Abenaki songs, the Wabanaki songs that we sing. Big influence. I guess I, I interpreting that question as a musical creative question, but I also grew up with a lot of political activism in my family and in my life.

So like non musically. And I grew up in a barn that for a while at least, that was when we moved to Maine, I was five years old and we. Basically squatted in this barn that was used as storage by the Bread and Puppet Theater, which was like a political theater organization that got its start in the sixties, anti-war activism.

And that was like the community that I grew up in, this sort of like anti-war, anti-imperialist organizing space. And that barn had all these like huge paper mache, like props that were used in the big parades that you might have seen those pictures. I think that growing up in that environment was also very influential on me.

Joe Williams: I think you've just described the most magical growing up experience of all the guests that I've talked to. Oh my God. It's, it sounds almost, almost whimsical in the sense, in this what a, a space there.

Mali Obomsawin: Yeah. Whimsical, but also severe, like it is, it's very strange sort of yeah. Contrast there,

Joe Williams: I imagine a follow up question to this and of the, your introduction music-wise, what was the first album or the CD or download? What was your first one that really stood out for you that really grabbed you musically?

Mali Obomsawin: Hello, man.

There are three that come to mind. I won't go too deeply into them, but I, my family, actually, my dad's a musician and I grew up going to his concerts, his gigs, he played a lot of like bar gigs, bar and grill. And so I heard him playing a lot, but we didn't have, other than that, like a ton of music.

Playing in the house that I remember, I think probably just because of like limitations of electricity honestly, in, when we were living in the barn. But I remember hearing the Louis Armstrong and Ella Fitzgerald duo record playing a lot. So there's a lot of duets. I remember Buena Vista Social Club was like a classic that my dad and mom always had on.

And and then there's this, my mom's kind of this like hippie, like she's like a Jewish lady from New York. And she, I don't know if you've been to a lot of these New England, like hippie stores. They usually have a CD rack with these very generic sort of like ethnic records on them.

And she picked up this record called Arabic Groove, which like I really loved as a kid. So those are the three that come to mind.

Joe Williams: That's incredible. Yeah. Yeah. No that's great. How did your music career develop? Often I pose this question to artists on their careers, developing a college and post-college.

How was that journey for you? Because I imagine maybe your music I don't wanna say career, but your music and maybe career is the right word. Probably started well before you were 18.

Mali Obomsawin: Yeah, I think so. So in Western Maine, with this robust fiddling tradition there's this fiddle camp that happens every year.

It's so dorky, but it was like, it was my life starting when I was like 12 and throughout the rest of high middle school and high school and, it's intergenerational. There's all of these different fiddle styles that I described, and you get to meet people and learn from people who are professionals who just do it in their kitchens, at home, who like teach in schools who tour.

And I think that's like when I really saw the path that I could take and ended up taking in, in terms of a career. But really learned that music was an entire. There's like this entire network and like matrix of like musical worlds that existed that I wanted to be a part of and explore hereSo.

So it was like 11 or 12 when I started going there.

Joe Williams: And how did that progress then over time as you've gotten older?

Mali Obomsawin: Yeah, there was a lot of folks who were there who ended up going to study in Boston at various music schools. New England Conservatory, Berklee College of Music, Emerson, there's, so many colleges in Boston and there's a strong traditional music scene in Boston.

Because of, yeah, 'cause of the Maine connection, because of everything and, so I met those folks. I saw that I wanted to be a part of that. And I ended up also going to this jazz camp that was like quite obscure jazz world that also happened to be in Farmington. It was like an avant-garde jazz camp.

I started going to that when I was 14 and, that also had a strong Boston connection. So right after I graduated high school and even before I graduated, I was making trips to Boston to meet people and play, and then ended up starting a folk band that crystallized in Boston. And by the, I was only living in studying in Boston for a year before going to Dartmouth College.

Where I was able to go with on scholarship and everything, it was great. But I I basically spent every weekend of college away from Dartmouth, just going back to Boston playing and gigging and touring. Yeah.

Joe Williams: And oftentimes opportunities will present themselves, especially during that period.

How did those present themselves to you and yeah. Could you talk us through some of those experiences?

Mali Obomsawin: Yeah. The band that I formed it's funny, it's like such a distant part of my life now. But they were called Lula Wild. It's like very folk like with these two nice white girls from Maine.

And I got I was really into it and we, we ended up, getting invited to play at a lot of festivals and teach at a lot of camps. And it was really similar to how we all grew up. I met them at fiddle camp and the like festival, it was like folk festival with a week of like teaching attached to it was something that we ended up just doing all summer and then we would, book our own shows, and so they, we would book them around my school schedule and their school schedule when they were at school too. I was the youngest. Yeah. So I guess it it just snowballs after a minute.

Joe Williams: Yeah. Since that time to what what's going on now? What's, what are you, how do I pose this question? Sorry I'm off my regular script here. Yeah. Can you talk to me about what's going on right now? Both in the studio and of course you're performing right now. I think before we started recording you had a performance last night and then you came back to and graciously met up with me this morning to have this conversation.

Mali Obomsawin: Yeah. What's going on right now? So I put out my debut album at the end of 2022, so I guess that was. Just three years ago. Is that right? Just, yeah. Three, four years ago. Time is so strange. And it just turned into this huge thing and I feel like I've been touring nonstop for three years.

I'm so exhausted and I I don't know, my career really took off and I got a manager, got a booking agent, toured a bunch and. It's a machine and you, after a while, realize that you are just like a gadget in that machine. Like you're just like, one of the bolts and you're the most important bolt, but you're just a bolt.

And it's actually like pretty, like dehumanizing after a while because like, when do you rest? So I like just finished. What feels like three years on the road and now I am home and reconnecting with my practice and like remembering how to be a full human, not just a bolt. It's really awesome. I'm like, I'm reading, I'm returning to my creative practice, which is this.

A beautiful combination of like fiction and poetry and theory, political theory, and obviously practicing bass and like listening to music, smoking weed. Like I'm just like remembering how to do what I do. That's what I'm doing right now

Joe Williams: As someone who has a creative practice themselves, it's quite difficult sometimes to find time for yourself to do the work that you did that just feeds your own soul.

How, and I imagine it's probably not been possible for a short while now for you with what's been going on. How important is it for you to be able to make time for yourself to just do something for yourself and to return to your own center?

Mali Obomsawin: It's vital, but it's also I think it was Tazbah Chavez was like on this panel at, on Sundance last year, and she was just like, when we're working, wellness is like the first thing that we sacrifice. Especially as women. We're just like, oh yeah, wellness. What's that? I'll eat. McDonald's burger because I just don't have time, and whatever. And like with like wellness is one thing, like making sure bodies are healthy, but for being a creator of art like the, this time of like quietness and stillness and engaging with any feelings of depression or feelings at all.

That's actually what the art comes from. And so I feel like I've like actually by getting rid of this solitude and this slowness, I've gotten rid of my creative practice altogether. And so it's like absolutely critical. I don't know, people are like what's gonna happen with your next record?

Like, when's that coming? And I'm like, if I had been, if I had made myself less available to the public by touring so constantly, like there would be a next record right now, it's such a strange formula to try to figure out.

Joe Williams: Yeah. Yeah. This reminds me of a conversation I've had with another guest on the show where when they.

Do get back into their studio to create sometimes they block out the world and then they're stuck in their studio for not stuck. They're isolated in their studio for months at a time creating, and of course they get back in their head, they get back in those old routines that sort of, that, that generates that creative process.

But then they come out of it. Not having human contact for months or weeks, and they don't know how to interact with people. They could strange again. And I imagine maybe now that you're off the road and you're back in your space maybe that the elements that create that for that creative process will begin again for you.

Mali Obomsawin: I hope so. And I feel like I'm always strange. I don't know. I'm like, oh God. The idea of getting more strange. So terrifying. But yeah. It's such a strange balance because it's like you go out into the world and you engage with people and you're like gathering in all these ways, gathering experiences, gathering thoughts and theories and everything that you don't quite realize that you're gathering until you take that solitary time.

And but I felt. I am excited to see that those experiences trickle out because I haven't had any time to reflect on them enough to know if I've, even if I even have anything to write about right now. I'm sure I do, but I think we all get to that point as artists where we're like, oh, do I even have anything to say?

Have I lost it? Like, where's that thing? Is it gonna come to me? Or have I lost it? That I just,

Joe Williams: I listen to interviews of musicians in their seventies and eighties, and they, I think they still feel that even though they're, yeah. They've been doing this their entire life and yeah.

But as soon as they get rolling again, it all comes in and it all just lines up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a piece of famine. Yeah. Perfect. Yeah. Perfect. So what would you say to the 18 to 22 year old that's listening to this conversation?

Mali Obomsawin: I, it's a big question. Yeah. I think the most powerful thing that you can do is if you're into something, if you like something, if you feel drawn towards something, just keep going deeper into it, keep going closer towards it and following it. And don't be distracted by the idea that you should do something else, you should be able to do something else or should be on a different track because society wants you to have financial stability or I don't know.

I feel like for folks who like grew up in situations of like instability, financial or otherwise, it's a lot easier for us to be like. We made it work, so like, why should I go and get a nine to five and try to chase down a salary or something? But for others, maybe that matters more.

And maybe, and I know that sometimes like growing up in instability makes you more inclined to like, get rid of your dreams and just chase stability and predictability, but yeah, I, my advice is just if you want to believe. That you can do it. You should believe it, and you should go and chase it.

And don't get distracted. Yeah.

Joe Williams: Heck yeah. So what's what's next for you? What's on the horizon for you?

Mali Obomsawin: This year is so exciting because it's just this vast expanse of time to write and figure out the answer to that question. And like I, I know, I can tell you Deerlady is writing, we're getting together.

A lot to write more music and figure out what that sound is gonna be. I just did some recording with my sextet. We'll see what happens with those. I'm trying to figure out what it is for me next. I think it's so easy for artists to get caught up on what they did once that was successful and try to recreate that.

And I'm not really interested in. That, I'm just like, I'm just trying to grow and see what that looks like and sounds like. So that's what's next.

Joe Williams: With the sextet, was that, did you all perform Lineage?

Mali Obomsawin: Yeah.

Joe Williams: That is, Lineage is something that has been on repeat for me right now. It's an amazing piece.

Mali Obomsawin: Thank you so much. That means a lot. That's, yeah. That was like the, maybe the first totally original song that I wrote, composition that I wrote.

Joe Williams: Really?

Mali Obomsawin: Yeah.

Joe Williams: Yeah. Out the gate. Out the gate. That was it. I have this oh I don't wanna misstate what it is. For me, it was just this intertwining arrangement in my head that I could just see and just go with when I was, when I listened to it. And yeah, that and your other pieces are just amazing. So yeah. Thank you so much. Thank you. So speaking of which where can the listener connect with your music or find you on social media?

Mali Obomsawin: Yeah social media. I hate to say it, but I'm still on there. Okay. Okay. On Instagram @maliobomsawin, easy to find. If you can spell my name. And also @dearladyband. And you can find my music. The best place to look for it to buy it is on Bandcamp. So you can find me there and that's all my projects are on there connected to my page.

You can find Deerlady, you can find those smaller things that I put out without a label which is fun and a little Easter egg for folks who are really interested in the process and what happens between the big productions.

Joe Williams: Right on. We'll we'll put link in the show notes for the listener to find, so thank you.

Yeah. Is there any last thoughts you'd like to leave with us before, before we close out?

Mali Obomsawin: Yeah, it's been great talking to you, Joe.

Joe Williams: This was an honor, thank you so much for taking time, especially after late night, last night and this early morning conversation.

Thank you.

Mali Obomsawin: My pleasure.

Joe Williams: And that does it for this episode of 5 Plain Questions. I wanna thank Mali again for her time and sharing her story with us. This conversation happened early in the morning, and she had just returned late night before from her last tour date. She had every opportunity to reschedule, but she didn't.

And as you can hear, she was amazing. I feel Mali is about to really blow up and I'm so honored that we had this conversation with her and for you to be able to connect with her. So please check out her website at maliobomsawin.com, and follow her on Spotify, Apple Music or wherever you stream, as well as YouTube.

Her website also has tour dates, so please absolutely go check her out in person. I wanna thank you for joining us and spending your time listening to what I feel is a very important story and perspective from our community. Please join us next time as we speak with another incredible person. I'm Joe Williams.

Episode Conclusion

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This has been an Eleven Warrior Arts production.